How you can use marketing automation to improve user experience and business outcomes

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In this Show and Tell we partner with Kenda Macdonald from Automation Ninjas to discuss how automation can benefit your forms and business processes. We discuss points including:

• What is marketing automation?
• Progressive form filling
• ITTT (If this then that)
• Lead gen form scoring and weighting
• Starting and stopping campaigns using forms
• Automating the "Thank You" page

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If you've found this useful we have many more video and text resources on form optimization on our guides page and our form optimization blog.

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Video Workshop Transcript: Marketing Automation & Forms

Welcome & housekeeping

00:00
Welcome everyone — and welcome to the show. Today we’re continuing our series of sessions with special guests, and the topic is marketing automation and how it performs.

A bit of housekeeping before we get started: if you have any questions, please drop them into the chat. We’ll try to answer them either as we go, or towards the end.

Introductions

00:30
First, a quick introduction.

I’m Alun, Managing Director of Zuko Analytics. We’re a form analytics platform that tracks behaviour on forms and helps you optimise conversion rates.

Before I hand over, a quick shout-out to Experimentation Elite, who are supporting this event. It’s the biggest experimentation event in the UK, taking place on June 28th in London. If you want tickets, head to experimentationelite.com.

Now I’ll hand over to Kenda, who can introduce herself — and explain what we mean by marketing automation.

What is marketing automation?

01:18
Kenda: Thanks Alun — I feel like a news presenter now!

I’m Kenda McDonald, CEO and founder of Automation Ninjas. We’re a behavioural marketing automation agency.

My background is in forensic psychology, and I help people understand how the brain works — and how to adapt marketing so it works better for brains, which ultimately increases conversion rates.

When it comes to marketing automation, the definition I like is this:

Marketing is everything you do to get and keep a customer.
Marketing automation is the systems, tools, and processes you use to make that happen in a digital landscape.

One of the most important parts of that process is collecting lead information — and that’s where forms come in.

People often think of forms as static contact forms, but forms actually play a huge role in automating the customer journey. Unfortunately, most businesses don’t use them effectively — which is why we’re here today.

We’ve got a long list of things we could cover, and only half an hour, so let’s start and see how far we get.

Progressive profiling

03:06
Alun: Let’s start with progressive profiling. What does it actually mean in practice, and how does it improve the experience for the user — and the outcomes for the business?

Kenda: Progressive profiling became popular largely because of HubSpot. HubSpot defines it as the incremental collection of information.

For example:

• the first time someone interacts with you, you collect first name, email, company name
• the next time, instead of asking the same thing again, you collect something new — phone number, job title, etc.

That’s better than collecting the same info repeatedly — but I’d argue it’s still too basic.

We should be collecting information behaviourally. People’s actions tell you a lot.

For example: if someone signs up for a lead magnet about lead generation, we already know they have a lead generation problem. That behavioural signal is extremely valuable, and it means we can segment them and tailor content accordingly.

First-party vs third-party data

05:14
Alun: Where do you stand on first-party understanding versus third-party data?

Kenda: People will tell you things — but what they say isn’t always true. Their behaviour is often more revealing.

So it shouldn’t be one or the other. It should be a combination.

Use what people tell you and what they do to adapt their journey in an automated way — both digitally and beyond digital.

A lot of businesses focus purely on digital touchpoints, but the most important part might be fulfilment or customer service. Automation can support those areas too.

Automation improving fulfilment: real-world examples

06:42
Kenda: For example, we work with building suppliers — underfloor heating and roof tiling companies.

Their websites collect quote requests and behavioural information. Then leads speak to a salesperson, who gathers a lot more detail on the phone.

The sales team captures that information using internal forms, which then feeds into fulfilment systems so the business can build exactly what the customer needs.

Forms aren’t just external tools — they can be used internally too.

“If this, then that” automation

08:03
Alun: That brings us nicely to “if this, then that” logic. How can businesses use this to their advantage?

Kenda: The key is thinking beyond “send an automated email.”

Instead, think about how a real conversation works. If someone tells you what they’re interested in, you wouldn’t respond with generic information — you’d respond with what they actually asked for.

Forms tell you what someone wants. But many businesses still use dropdowns on contact forms, then send generic welcome sequences anyway.

That’s a wasted opportunity.

If a field exists, it should be useful. If you’re collecting information and doing nothing with it, you’re adding friction for no reason.

Lead scoring (and why most companies get it wrong)

10:33
Kenda: One of the biggest controversial topics here is lead scoring.

Most lead scoring systems are superficial. Businesses confuse engagement with lead quality.

They score people based on:

• opening emails
• filling out a form
• signing up for something

That doesn’t mean someone is a hot lead — it just means they’re engaged.

Lead scoring should reflect where someone is in the sales cycle, based on sales intent behaviours.

If someone fills out a “contact us” form and asks for a call — that’s a hot lead.
If someone downloads a basic beginner guide — they’re not ready for sales.

We need to go deeper. We need to score behaviour based on sales intent, not just engagement.

Building a lead scoring model properly

13:42
Alun: If we were starting from scratch, would historic behaviour be the best way to build lead scoring?

Kenda: Yes — if you have past data, use it.

Look at what behaviours correlate with purchase or conversion and build scoring based on real evidence.

But many businesses don’t have that data because they haven’t tracked things properly.

If you don’t have the data, then sit down with your sales team. Ask:

• what questions do people ask before converting?
• what resources do they request?
• what behaviours indicate intent?

Sales teams are a goldmine of insight, but businesses rarely use them properly.

You can also map out your automation journey — what stages exist, and what behaviours indicate each stage. Then experiment and refine.

Example: lead scoring vs form friction

15:21
Alun: I had a conversation recently with an investment company. They asked “How much are you intending to invest?” — but it caused massive drop-off.

They wanted the data to prioritise sales follow-up, but it was declared intent rather than observed behaviour, and it wasn’t reliable.

Removing it might increase overall conversions even if they lose that “prioritisation” signal.

Kenda: Exactly. In those cases, a blended approach is often better.

Remove the friction question from the form, then collect that information later through behavioural signals.

For example: in a welcome series you might offer three resources for different investment brackets. The one they download tells you which bracket they’re likely in.

That’s behavioural profiling — and it’s far more reliable than asking directly.

But you have to build automation strategically, with intent.

Third-party enrichment data

18:12
Alun: Where do you stand on pulling in third-party data (company databases, LinkedIn data, etc.), instead of asking questions like “How big is your company?”

Kenda: It depends on the sales process.

Some businesses absolutely need that third-party enrichment to filter leads — especially if they only sell to large organisations.

I don’t see an issue with it, as long as you’re not relying on it exclusively. You should still incorporate behavioural data.

There are lots of systems now that let you pull in enrichment data without having to ask the user for everything.

Using forms to start and stop campaigns

20:23
Alun: Let’s move on to using forms and automation to start and stop campaigns.

Starting campaigns is common — but how should we think about stopping them?

Kenda: This is one of the biggest things we look for in audits: how well structured campaigns are.

A major mistake is assuming the only way a campaign ends is when someone purchases.

Campaigns should also stop when someone progresses in the buying journey.

Example: someone is in a campaign promoting a webinar. But then they download a buyer’s guide. At that point, you may want to stop the webinar promotion and move them into a sales-focused nurture sequence.

Campaigns should end based on behaviours like:

• filling out a contact form
• downloading a higher-intent resource
• speaking to sales
• purchasing

If you don’t structure campaign exits properly, people end up in multiple campaigns at once, get overwhelmed, and eventually mark you as spam.

E-commerce example

23:23
Alun: The classic example is buying a pair of trainers, then getting an ad the next day to buy the same trainers again.

Kenda: Exactly. Checkout is just a glorified form — and automation needs to be smart enough to move customers into cross-sell or post-purchase journeys, not keep selling them what they already bought.

Thank-you pages (hugely underrated)

24:05
Alun: Our final topic is what happens after the form is completed — where do you send people next?

Kenda: This is close to my heart.

If anyone is listening and your form submission just shows a tiny “thank you” message… you are bad, and you should feel bad.

Thank-you pages are fundamental.

There’s something called transitional velocity — the momentum people have as they move from one stage of a journey to the next. You want that transition to be as smooth and low-friction as possible.

A thank-you page is prime real estate.

On average:

• around 60% of people will open the follow-up email
• but 100% of people who complete the form will see the thank-you page

That means your thank-you page has a higher guaranteed view rate than your emails.

It’s the perfect place to tell users:

• what happens next
• where to go
• to check their email
• to download resources
• to view next steps or related products

Also, from an analytics perspective, you should have different thank-you pages for different forms. Don’t reuse the same generic one over and over.

Thank-you pages are often an afterthought, but they are a vital part of the journey. You can’t build a beautiful form, strong emails, and then have a terrible thank-you page.

Audience Q&A: “sniper links” to email inbox

27:19
Alun: Great question from Anna: have you implemented “sniper links” on thank-you pages — links that take people directly to their Gmail or Outlook inbox?

Kenda: Yes, and they work well — especially for B2B audiences.

These links can help guide people directly to the email you’ve sent them.

You can also:

• tell users to check their inbox
• show a preview of what the email looks like

One thing I strongly recommend: don’t put the lead magnet PDF directly on the thank-you page.

There are two reasons:

1. Behavioural: you want people to recognise your emails in their inbox and build familiarity
2. Technical: you need email opens and clicks for deliverability and sender reputation

Email engagement improves deliverability — and if deliverability is already poor, giving people the PDF directly makes the problem worse.

Multi-step forms question

30:18
Alun: Anna asked about multi-step forms and drop-off.

Typically we see multi-step forms perform better overall. But if there’s drop-off throughout, you need to identify where and why.

General tips include:

• managing expectations clearly
• using a progress bar
• avoiding unexpected questions (e.g. asking for a passport number with no warning)
• using progressive profiling where possible

Closing remarks

32:27
Alun: We’re at the end of the session. Thanks again to Kenda for joining.

If you want to learn more about marketing automation, Kenda — how can people contact you?

Kenda: You can visit automationninjas.com — there’s a huge blog there. You can also DM me on LinkedIn (Kenda McDonald) or reach out on Twitter.

My email is: kenda@automationninjas.com

Alun: And if you have any form or analytics questions, feel free to contact me — LinkedIn is best, or email me at alun@zuko.io.

It looks like there are no more questions, so we’ll sign off. Thanks for your time — we’ll follow up with the recording, and it will also remain available on LinkedIn Live.

Thanks everyone — enjoy the rest of your day. Bye!

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